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Single Line reefing

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ancala	Single Line reefing		Lead	[-]
Posts: 10 01/02/08 19:48:26	Tags : None Hi folks we had our first summer cruise in NZ on Windriver our new boat (Cat 42 1999 MkII Two Cabin) . All went pretty well, but have some questions: 1) Single line reefing has a lot of friction, and we find it hard to raise the complete main from the cockpit after its been reefed, without lots of running back & forth to pull out spare line from both ends of the boom. 2) We also find it hard to reef without going to the mast to drop out slides from the track, otherwise there is a bunched up sail at the new tack position, which kind of defeats the idea of cockpit reefing. Also without doing this there is too much friction to pull the tack & clew down to the boom properly. Has anyone modified how this works, all my previous boats have had simple slab reefing, which I have been able to set-up in half the time this seems to take. But it always involved a trip to the mast to do the job, as far as I can see at present I still have to go to the mast, and might jsut convert it to a simple slab reef. Lastly we have a 105% Roller Furler which we think is too underpowered for coastal work so a new 130% Genoa is now on our shopping list, the Genoa track seems too short to get it to set correctly. Thanks Stuart
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do335		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 258 01/03/08 18:17:44	The single line reefing isn't perfect, but it can be modified to make it easier. I have modified my single line reefing to reduce the friction, but it still requires you to go to the mast when you want to pull out the reef. I put a block at the clew for both reef points, this has helped. I also put a cheek block on each side of the mast for each tack reefing line. Each block is at a height that doesn't allow the reef point grommet to be pulled any lower than the top of the track slides. This keeps the slides from interfering with the reef line and I never have to drop out the slides. With this set up I can easily reef with out leaving the cockpit using a winch and pull both the clew and tack tight. I'm trying to engineer a method so that the all the reef line doesn't need to pull thru the tack before the clew is tight. I believe the clew grommet is the major source of friction in the system. I sail in SF Bay so a 130% is too big most of the time, a 105% is the jib of choice here. I agree, the track is too short for anything less than a 130%. I added 48" to the forward end of track and can now have the right angle even if I reduce the 105% by 25%. If I did it again, I would try to use a continuous track rather than splice 48" to the track, it is hard to keep the two pieces in alignment. Steve 642-2f TESA
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melelana		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 337 01/03/08 19:52:37	Stuart, Over the years, we've had a number of discussions on single line reefing and friction. In summary, the reefing line is actually 2 lines. One from the cockpit through a turning block at the base of the mast into the boom, through the forward part of the "butterfly block" in the boom, back to the inboard end of the boom, up through the tack reef to a dead end on the mast. The second from the outboard end of the boom to the outboard side of the butterfly block, back to the boom end, up to the clew reef and dead ended at the boom. With all those turns and sheaves, it's a wonder it moves at all...... Some lube everything up and live with it. With two lines, you can rig and unrig the reef easily without re running lots of line. Some have deleted the butterfly block and gone with a single line for the works. That means you have to unreeve the line from the cockpit to take out the tack reef line. Since most of us leave it rigged, that's probably not a big deal. Re rigging to regular slab reefing is an option where you fit a tack hook and add reefing rings to the tack reefing position. With that, you must go to the mast to reef or unreef. For a fully crewed boat it's an option. Single line reefing is a good solution to reef entirely from the cockpit, but- as you note- the friction complicates the issue. As to the tack position, it a matter of the position of the tack postion and slide installation. On my new main, I've asked the sailmaker to space the slides so that the reef cringle can be drawn all the way down without interference. We'll see how it arrives in 6 weeks or so.......when our 3 month non sailing season ends. Much easier to do for the first reef than the second. As my primary sailing ground is the Chesapeake Bay, I've opted for a deep single reef rather than 2 reefs as I've only set the second reef once in the last 6 years - and then just to check it out. A single reef and a shift to a 95% high clewed working jib covers pretty significant coastal conditions. If my cruising grounds change, it's easy enough to retrofit a second reef. In the interim, I've saved the weight, cost and shape compromises of the second reef. There was a new 130 in the "for sale" forum if the freight and duty doesn't make it an upside down deal. Price here looks pretty competitive for a quality sail. Cheers, Larry Melelana Catalina 42 #175 1990 3cbn, wk Solomons, MD
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CaptNorm42	Single Line Reefing--drawing of butterfly block	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 622 01/03/08 21:18:56 Moderator	Stuart, As Larry mentioned, there has been a fair amount of discussion on this topic. Below are copy/pasting of messages in our older forum, followed by a CRUDE diagram of the old & new way Catalina has rigged the boom. I'm sure more has been written about reefing a C42, but this should give you some ideas. Posted by Captain Norm on March 31, 2002 at 16:48:54: In Reply to: 2nd reef point posted by Mike Daly on March 29, 2002 at 16:56:31: Some time ago I changed from the 5-yr old scheme (hull 600) to the way Catalina is doing it now. Click on the link below for a sketch & some text on getting rid of the "butterfly" block. Once this is done, it appears adding a 2nd reef would be quite easy. Mike, where do you usually sail? I've sailed Aphrodisiac (hull 600) out of So. Cal for 5 years. The boat never needed a 2nd reef. I guess I would have used it if I had a 2nd reef, but she did very well in a 45 knot true gust, steady 40 knots, mostly running coming back from Mexico in February a few years ago. Stupid as it sounds after the fact, most of the running was wing & wing (no pole), totally unfurled 140% genny, 1 reef in main. Btw, the waves were so big, I broached in about 40 knots true wind and the unthinkable happened: accidental JIBE of the main. Everything stayed up! Only problem was the shrouds stretched about 1/2 inch and the wedges around the mast at the deck popped out. I have a real heavy-duty Garhauer preventer now. Norm Perron http://www.catalina42.org/jifreef.jpg Above is a poor sketch (wish I had time to draw it on the computer, but this was quite faster). The top half is the system hull 600 came with, with the butterfly block in the boom. You will notice the old system had 3 extra blocks, more friction. I don't see any advantage with the old system, if anybody does, please let me know. The only possible issue in anyone else retrofitting to the new system is there must be a slot above the 4 blocks near the gooseneck so the line can go up to the cringle in the sail. The guys at Charleston Spar volunteered to mill out that slot for me if I need it milled as they made some without that slot. Luckily I didn't need it milled as I didn't want to remove the boom from the end piece. Norm Perron ---------------------- Posted by Nick Wigen on April 03, 2002 at 06:42:31: In Reply to: Re: 2nd reef point-sketch of mods posted by Captain Norm on April 02, 2002 at 21:48:26: Norm, You are right about the butterfly blocks offering no mechanical advantage. The force on the blocks is double the line tension on the forward end but the tension is cut in half on the aft end. Net gain is zero minus the friction loss in the butterfly. The reason they are used is so you don't have to pull the line used to take up the clew (aft end) through the cringle on the tack which is under considerable tension. The only line that passes through the tack cringle is what's used to pull the tack down. Having figured this out and also having a butterfly block in my boom I do agree with your verdict on the butterfly blocks. Our reefing lines are about due for replacement and I think I'll take the butterfly block out and follow the example in your sketch. ----------------------- Posted by Capt Rick on April 01, 2002 at 12:18:35: In Reply to: re: 2nd reef point-sketch of mods posted by Captain Norm on March 31, 2002 at 16:48:54: Norm, I beleive the idea behind the butterfly is to double the force on the leech end vs the luff. This "guarantees" that the foot is tight. It may not be necessary if friction is reasonable. I've completely changed my reefing but haven't tested it enough yet to know if it's successful. I'm also adding 2nd reef and based on my experience think it's very much needed upwind. Rick, Dolfino 704-3 ~~~~_/)~~~~ Norm Perron, Hull #600/2 cabin, Aphrodisiac, Marina del Rey, CA Last Edited By: CaptNorm42 01/03/08 21:22:05. Edited 1 time.
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ancala		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10 01/17/08 16:00:42	Hi Folks Thanks for all the feedback. Been busy with work of late. We now have a new 135% Genoa on order, as we also have a staysial on a furler so can put the 135% away in strong airs. As I dont like being overtaken by 30 footers in <15kts breeze!! Reefing wise I dont think we have butterly blocks, and when the slides are out the sail can be snugged down properly, and with a trip up to shake out the reef, if you pull lots of spare line thru, I can get a reasonable hoist. Guess every new boat has its learning curves. Just a shame I have to make a trip to the mast for a cockpit reefing system. Stuart
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tsoko	Slab Reefing	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5 01/22/08 17:10:59	Stuart, I don't claim to be the most brilliant person in the world, but there are other ways to rig slab reefing so that you don't have to go to the mast to reef or shake it out. First I would take off the reefing hook at the gooseneck. Then put an eyestrap on one side of the mast, and a bullseye fairlead on the other side of the mast, and arrange them so the forward reefing line (tack) pulls the main both forward and downward, at roughly 45 degrees. With blocks at the gooseneck and mast partners, you can lead the reefing lines back to the cockpit. You can easily reef the main and shake it out from the cockpit. The aft reefing line (clew) is set up in the normal fashion. I have re-rigged the past three boats I have owned, and they have all worked very well with this setup. Pictures can be seen at: http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=1AasmrRk0cMXFg&notag=1, pictures #105-108. Hope this helps.
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