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davidirvine |
New Rudder |
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I am in the middle of a complete refit and I am wondering whether to fit the new rudder. From what I read here, the new rudder reduces weather helm. Is that the case or does it simply make it easier to control weather helm? In other words is weather helm independent of the rudder? Will the boat go faster with the new rudder? I am completely satisfied with the existing one but I have read that the boat is transformed with the new rudder etc etc. The experience of others would be welcomed.
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melelana |
New Rudder | #1 | ||
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David,
If you have a fin keel, the feedback would say the new rudder is well worth it. If you have a wing keel, you're stuck with the stock barn door rudder as there hasn't been enough interest to justify a custom design. One thing to consider if you're boat was built in 1989, 1990, or early in 1991. Early production rudder shafts were changed to a stronger design. Larry Melelana Catalina 42 # 175 1990 3bn, wk SOlomons MD |
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davidirvine |
Rudder | #2 | ||
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Larry
I have a 1995 mk2 fin keel. What benefits did you experience on changing to the new design? Is it related to weather helm? I am no expert in this field but I am trying to understand the link between the rudder and weather helm. I can understand that if the new rudder has a larger surface area,then less rudder movement will be required to keep the boat straight but then the drag on the boat will be the same as with the existing rudder. Perhaps there are other benefits? |
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470catalina42 |
Rudder | #3 | ||
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By definition, weather helm is rudder angle. The newer rudder is a high-aspect ratio design. I believe that the shorter chord length of the rudder places more of the underwater "lift" in the keel where it belongs. Less weather helm means less drag, thus more speed. I replaced the original "barn door" on my 1994 Mark I 42, and am more than satisfied with the result.
Norman Duford Fortune Cookie Mark I, 3-cabin Fin |
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melelana |
Re: Rudder | #4 | ||
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David,
I haven't made the change as the new rudder would be deeper than my wing keel. Not a good way to find the bottom. For a fin keel boat, I think it's a priority upgrade. As Norm says, weather helm is rudder angle required to keep the boat from heading closer to the wind. A small amount of weather helm is desireable. The force you feel in the wheel from weather helm is caused by 2 factors - the rudder angle required to maintain course and the rudder balance that controls how much force is required to hold a given rudder angle at a given speed. Balance is a product of hydrodynamic efficiency and balance ratio - that portion of the rudder blade that is forward of the center of the rudder shaft. Too much balance and you take away the feedback you get from the rudder, making the rudder dead or "twitchy". Too little balance, and you get a rudder that requires excessive force on the helm to control the boat - and that force increases quickly as more rudder is required. A "perfect" rudder is hydrodynamically efficient - that is it generates lift a small angles of attack with minimum drag - and has a balance ratio that provides positive feedback to the helm while minimizing the forces the helmsman (or autopilot) has to counter. The original rudder adequately controls the boat. In my opinion, it is an inefficient shape (requires too much angle of attack to generate lift) and has insufficient balance area so that the control forces build too quickly as more rudder movement is required. In 15-18 knots of wind, the boat is "cranky" and my kids have trouble controlling the helm in the gusts. The new rudder is by design a more efficient blade and all reports are that it significantly improves performance and rudder feel. Unfortunately, those improvements are only available to captains with fin keels. There's some interest in a new design rudder for wing keel boats, but only 3 or 4 owners have stepped up to say they are interested enough to consider buying one if it were available. It takes 15 or 20 (of several hundred wing keel boats out there) to justify the design and set up costs. A long winded way of saying I think the new rudder is a priority upgrade for any fin keel boat and that I really wish a better blade was available for wing keel boats. I would order one today. Regards, Larry Melelana Catalina 42 #175 1990 3cbn, wk Solomons, MD |
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steveleshner |
New Rudder | #5 | ||
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I switched to the new rudder late last year and am amazed how much better my boat sails now.No weather helm,faster, backs better and makes the boat feel much more manuverable.It is a great upgrade.
Steve Leshner, #386 Batucada, Marina Del Rey Ca. 1993 2 cab fin |
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destinysfo |
New Rudder | #6 | ||
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Along with a folding or feather prop, the new rudder is the best thing you can do to enhance the boat's performance under sail. Makes a huge difference in winds over 17-18 knots which are common in the S.F. Bay area.
John Foy "Destiny" #329 2 cabin fin Alameda, CA |
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lakandjc |
rudder | #7 | ||
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David:
I agree w/the above. We put a new rudder and Flex-o-fold prop on #450/fin keel and it is a new boat, both under sail and power. Steers better and easier, autopilot is happier, and we have more speed under sail and power. The rudder swap was relatively painless as Catalina made the new one to fit (we gave them the hull #) It just slid right in. The installers had to drill some holes to pin it to the quadrent but it was not epic. Just usual install stuff. And even if you don't change the prop, be sure and slide the shaft out and have a look while you are at it. Many seem to be pitted in the area of the cutlass bearing. Good luck... James White Star #450 Puerto Vallarta |
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don |
Rudder | #8 | ||
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Larry: Have you generated any interest in the new rudder for the wing keel C 42's? Don #349 3 cabin
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melelana |
New Rudder for Wing Keel Boats | #9 | ||
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Don,
Despite the great reports from our fin keel brethern, I only had about 3 other wing keel owners indicate real interest in a new rudder design for wing keel boats. I contacted a well known yacht designer and the folks at Foss Foam who make rudders for a living. Design and molds total around $4,500. It takes 15-20 rudders to amortize that non recurring expense and buy rudders for close to the same price Catalina charges for a replacement. For 4 folks, we''d be paying over $1,000 each more than the Catalina replacement. It's "only a boat unit", but a tough one to swallow. I'll "bump" the previous thread back up, but I just don't see a new design happening for wing keel boats unless there's more interest. Larry Melelana Catalina 42 #175 1990 3cbn, wk Solomons, MD |
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