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do335 |
Recommended Rig Tension |
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Does anyone know what the various tensions should be on the rigging of our boats? Can you tell by looking at it or do you need a tension gauge?
Steve 642-2f TESA
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yorkrose |
Re: Recommended Rig Tension | #1 | ||
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Steve,
"Real Riggers" don't need no stinkin' tension gauge, but some of us find it useful. In particular it is useful to check if the tension is the same on both sides. The basic rule is always to keep the mast centered and straight laterally. Sighting up the mast is the standard method, but it is not always easy to see small deviations. The question of tension, even on a straight rig, is always uncertain. On the more complicated C42 rig it is pretty difficult to tune by tension. The generic "proper" tension is somewhere around 15% to 20% of the breaking strength of the wire. Unfortunately, this rule-of-thumb is more suitable as rigging design guideline than as a tuning guideline. If it was known that the wire size chosen in the design stage was exactly correct, then one might use this sort of rule as a tuning guide as well. I have never seen a quantitative tuning guide for the larger Catalinas, such as one might find for a C22 or a J24. Regards, Gene Fuller Yorkshire Rose, C42 #870 |
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peter |
same | #2 | ||
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in a 12-15 kt the shrouds should not be slack nor tight. I adjust mine by making sure the stick is straight... hitting each shroud and watching the vibration so that it vibrates for the same duration.... then I go for a sail and notice the slack on each tack... I then tighten the turnbuckle so each side has same tension on both tacks. at 15-20kts you should see some slack, if not then they are to tight.... hope that helps
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nickwigen |
Upper shroud tension | #3 | ||
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The stock 42 has an offset backstay. If you try to get the tension the same on each side you will end up with a crooked mast. I hired a professional rigger of considerable repute to tune my mast a couple of years ago. He kept adjusting and adjusting to try to get them equal with a straight mast. He finally declared it OK and left with my check. Later I looked at the stern from a distance and the mast was cranked over about 8" at the top. It took some time to get it back straight.
The method Peter describes works well for me. I think a tensioning gauge would be useful if you are resetting your mast or slack the shrouds when on the hard. Once you get it set the way you want you could record all the tensions and reset them once the mast is back up. Personally I just use electrical tape around the threads on the turnbuckles to get it back where it was. |
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yorkrose |
Re: Upper shroud tension | #4 | ||
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Nick,
It is not clear from your description just what the rigger did, but it does not seem possible that the offset backstay could be the problem. On our boat the backstay is offset 16 inches from the centerline. Assuming the backstay is 60 feet long, the angle is just over one degree. The lateral force on the top of the mast would be about 2% of the tension in the backstay. If the backstay was tensioned to 2000 pounds, a reasonably high number, the lateral force on the mast tip would be only 40 pounds. That is certainly way too small to bend the mast 8 inches. It is my understanding that Catalina claims the backstay offset has negligible impact on the tune of the rig. Regards, Gene Fuller Yorkshire Rose, C42 #870 |
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nickwigen |
More on upper shroud tension | #5 | ||
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Hello Gene,
You are right. A also calculate about 40 lbs side force from the angled backstay and that isn't enough to bend the mast 8". I didn't describe it very clearly since it wasn't bent, just not vertical. The rigger had spent about an hour messing around with upper shroud tensions trying the get them equal and in the process the mast ended up to starboard. He just didn't bother to do a final check. Assuming the 2000 lbs backstay tension and looking at the geometry I get that the port upper shroud will need to have about 200 lbs more tension than the starboard. The 40 lbs side force over the approximate 5:1 angle on the upper comes up to 200 lbs. This pretty much matches what the rigger was getting with his gauges. I don't use a tension gauge but the method Peter describes above. On a good 15 kt day while hard to weather I check the shroud tension and make sure the mast is straight on both tacks. I would agree with Catalina that the offset has negligable effect. The first year we had the boat it seemed to have quite a bit of weather helm so I moved the mast forward so it almost touches the deck collar at the front and that helped quite a bit. What's been your experience? The previous owner installed a hydraulic backstay adjuster. There's been quite a bit of debate about whether or not it should be used with our swept back spreaders. I don't consider it an important piece of gear especially since we don't race but use it to leave the backstay pretty loose at the dock and tighten it up when we sail. I guess it's not really a backstay tensioner but more of a backstay "loosener" the way we use it. If I forget to tighten it up we can see it right away in the weather helm and sag on the headstay. P.S. Actually we do race whenever our good friends and slip neighbors Bob and Rick Teeter on Camelot are on the river. Two identical boats except Bob cheated and put on the new rudder. The winner is the beneficiary of tactics and luck. When I win, it's tactics. When he wins, it's luck. It seems like I lose a few more than I win. Bob says the same thing. Don't you Bob? |
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bobteeter |
Re: More on upper shroud tension | #6 | ||
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It appears that Nick is trying to get me to respond. I too had the expensive professional tune my mast and I have all of the different specs down at the boat somewhere. I also bought the tension gauge. Now ask how many times I've used it in the past two years. The answer is never. When we have the boat hauled for a bottom job, I take the back stay off, but count the turns as I take it off to get it back were it was.
Nick is also right on the racing. We are always sparing. It seems that whoever gets ahead, stays ahead unless a major blunder or wind shiift occurs. I agree that the best way to tune a C42 is under sail. I do try to keep the tension equal, but it is more about having a stick that is straight to the boat and not just vertical. Our boat has always listed to port. I therefore take a measurement with a steel tape from the top of the mast to the chain plate on the port and starboard as a starting point and then go from there. I usually do this with the main halyard. If you want, I will check for the specs the professional gave me when I'm at the boat again. Bob |
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madmal |
Re: More on upper shroud tension | #7 | ||
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I have just had the mast re-stepped after the winter and there seems no exact science in the ammount of tension the rigger applied, it was just see the mast was straight (sighting up the main sail track) and then give each stay and pull here and there and tension as required and the job is done???
Having a roller furling fore stay the length is set so the only adjust for mast rake is with the back stay, however, you need to have the correct tension on both front and back stay so in many ways the rake is predetermined. Using the main halyard and a heavy weight, do any of you know how far behind the mast the weight should hang at boom level. the mast has a pre-bend. Regards Mal. |
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bobteeter |
Re: Recommended Rig Tension | #8 | ||
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I just got back from Camelot our 1990 (215). She has an Isomat. I had obtained the following instructions from Isomat about Stepping and Tuning the Mast for the Catalina 42:
1. Rig the intermediate and lower shourds in the back hole of the spreader base casting. 2. Place the cap shroud on the aft hole of the lower speader tip aand the intermediate shroud froward in the tip. 3. Step the mast and attach al stas to their chainplates with zero degrees of mast rake. 4. Wedge the mast in the collar as forward as is possible. The wood wedges on the back of the mast should be all the way down in their slots. 5. The forward wedges should protrude up from the collar and may be cut flush with the collar after hammering them tightly into place. 6. Tighten the backstay as much as possible using a large adjustible wrinch. Tighten enough to put a 3 to 4 inch preben in the mast 7. Tighen the cap shrouds enough to put another 3 to 4 inches of prebend in the mast, for a total prebend of 6 to 7 inches. This prebend will be induced by the spreader pushing forward on the mast. 8. Tighten the lowers and intermediates enough to reduce the prebend to a total of 3 inches 9. Tuning in this way will stabilize the mast. The spreaders push forward on the mast and the aft pull created by the lower and intermediates prevent bending further forward than the initial prepend. 9. Retune the mast after your first sail in moderate to heavy winds. Next, the professional tuner we hired a couple of years ago tuned the mast to the following specfications: Backstay 39#, Starboard-Upper 41 1\2#, Starboard 2nd 26 1\2#, Lower 39# Port-Upper 41 1\2#, Starboard 2nd 26 1\2#, Lower 39# Hope this helps. Bob |
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